For MTT/SNG Players - Extremely Useful Tool

[Kat]

In a couple of threads the topic of ICMs (independent chip models) has cropped up. If you're serious about MTT and SNG play, some familiarity with these is essential.

Why?

Multiple reasons, but fundamentally... these things are extremely powerful at giving the "correct" play when you're facing shove/fold decisions close to a bubble or when you're ITM. Screwing up in these situations does terrible things to your bottom line. For those of you who play double-or-nothings (DONs) having an idea of shove/fold ranges is particularly important.

You may recall another thread where I pointed out that folding AA can be correct on a money bubble. In a DON it's fairly easy to find bubble situations in which calling all-in is only correct if your hand is a 95% favorite. Guess what? There are NO pre-flop hand match-ups in holdem that have that equity advantage.

I'll leave you to play with the toy:

http://www.chillin411.com/icmcalc.php

[Walnut Dog]

hello KAT!

in double or nothings, is there a point where i should just sit out because my my chip stack is very high? if so, what is that magic number(s) in relation to blinds and how many peeps are left?

thanks!
nut dog

[Kat]

it's never right to literally sit out unless you have the discipline of an untrained, six-month old kangaroo, in which case you shouldn't be playing poker in the first place.

There are only magic numbers for each stack situation, but, for example, say you're 6-handed and you're chip leader. basically none of the other stacks should call if you shove on them with the possible exception of the shortest stack. so you can speed the process of cashing with aggression.

and i guess another rule is NEVER call an AI on the bubble of a DON unless you have a huge chip lead or you're so short you have less than a blind left.

If you want to use that calculator, just enter "20" for places 1st thru 5th and see how different stack sizes play to all-ins.

[phishfinder2]

Kat

I have heard about the ICM and am not sure what this is calculating. I am thinking it is to calculate pot equity of hand vs hand.

I've run accoss a poker calculating tool that calculates equity, i seem to like but i am not sure i am getting the most out of it. It is a free calculater called pokerstove. I was wondeing if you have heard of or used it. I would be intersted in your opinion of it and how to get the most out of it

I think many can benifit from it's at www.pokestove.com its free so all can check it out.



Phishy

[Kat]

Yeah pokerstove is useful for figuring out hand equity, but ICMs do something far more important for tournament players. The basic issue is that chip equity and cash equity are not the same thing in tournies. So, for example, say you have JJ and you know you're opponent has AK, you're a favorite and will always be happy to get AI with the JJ In a cash game. Cos on average you make 56c on the dollar or whatever it is. What an ICM does is calculate how that 56% edge translates into your expected prize money. The point being that it can be correct (and often is) to fold hands that you know are favorites. There's a good explanation at the site that I linked above.

As to pokerstove, I don't actually use it primarily because I don't play NLHE and I have my own dubious methods for figuring hand equity in Omaha variants.

[PARocket630]

Are you sure those NASA parties weren't fun. I beleive there is a 51% chance some were.

[Kat]

Are you sure those NASA parties weren't fun. I beleive there is a 51% chance some were.

Eeeeyeah... well, now I'm at the age where my main goal at parties is not breaking a hip, I'm happy to be dull provided it brings in the $$$.

[PARocket630]

Eeeeyeah... well, now I'm at the age where my main goal at parties is not breaking a hip, I'm happy to be dull provided it brings in the $$$.

Isn't it funny how when you are young the brain tells the body what to do;now it is the opposite.Had too much fun in the 70's and 80's ahhh if I only knew..........never mind got to go take my metamucil. Thanks for the poker advice that never gets old.