Bubble play of $3.30 180 man rebuy

[Yoda]

Results of this hand mean nothing for this hand. PLease use the poll to decide what you would do pre-flop. Please also post your thoughts on hand.

Action is all PREFLOP
Table is 7 handed. Antes of 500 and blinds of 2500/5000. This is a 180 man $3.30 tourney. 10-18th cant piad like $6.



Seat 2: 4lk4line (30851 in chips)
Seat 4: Ingo318158 (43737 in chips)
Seat 5: voices_Shh (11799 in chips)
Seat 6: pokshtas (52788 in chips)
Seat 7: xVinsentVegA (22630 in chips)
Seat 8: stokstaart (17614 in chips)
Seat 9: limonitidis (23833 in chips)
4lk4line: posts the ante 500
Ingo318158: posts the ante 500
voices_Shh: posts the ante 500
pokshtas: posts the ante 500
xVinsentVegA: posts the ante 500
stokstaart: posts the ante 500
limonitidis: posts the ante 500
pokshtas: posts small blind 2500
xVinsentVegA: posts big blind 5000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to voices_Shh [Th Kd]
Ingo318158 said, "lol"
stokstaart: folds
limonitidis: folds
4lk4line: folds
Ingo318158: folds

voices_Shh: raises 6299 to 11299 and is all-in

pokshtas: folds

xVinsentVegA: calls 6299

*** FLOP *** [Ac 6c Qd]

*** TURN *** [Ac 6c Qd] [6d]

*** RIVER *** [Ac 6c Qd 6d] [Js]

*** SHOW DOWN ***

xVinsentVegA: shows [Ad 6h] (a full house, Sixes full of Aces)

voices_Shh: shows [Th Kd] (a straight, Ten to Ace)

xVinsentVegA collected 28598 from pot
voices_Shh finished the tournament in 19th place

[Yoda]

this was a hard situation

[Barron40]

Are you asking what would I do before flop or after flop. You left a word out of your sentence.

[Barron40]

Alot for me would depend on how you were playing before. If you were pushing alot I would call maybe. But knowing you I would fold.

If you were hcal I would call. :)

[MinaR]

Very hard to fold but if I was close to making the money three things would be happening:

1) If my chip stack is good I would play more pots, people always play scared when they are close to the bubble and that is a good opportunity to profit from people playing scared poker.

2) If my chip stack is low then i would pick my spots and push hard with a aa kk qq 1010 99.

3) If I just want to make the money I would fold almost every hand. I don't like doing that but if I just wanted to cash then that is how I would do it.

[Yoda]

actually was ultra tight. Everything is preflop

[Luckymonkey]

I would actually ignore the bubble, and hope that it makes everybody else play tighter. 18th pays 1.2% of the prize pool. While that is something, I think the correct strategy is to go for the top 3 spots, where you can win 12% of the prize pool or more.

You have an M of less than 2 here, and need to win a pot this rotation to have any chance of placing in the top 3. KT is better than most hands, and nobody has entered the pot yet, looks favorable to me. I support the push 100%.

[amadare000]

I would actually ignore the bubble, and hope that it makes everybody else play tighter. 18th pays 1.2% of the prize pool. While that is something, I think the correct strategy is to go for the top 3 spots, where you can win 12% of the prize pool or more.

You have an M of less than 2 here, and need to win a pot this rotation to have any chance of placing in the top 3. KT is better than most hands, and nobody has entered the pot yet, looks favorable to me. I support the push 100%.

Completely agree with the Monkey.

[rookiepsu]

Agreed with Monkey. Easiest shove on the planet. Regardless of cards. It's a bonus that you got KT here, but you should be shoving any 2 in this spot all day. It's folded to you on the button with 2.1bbs. First of all you should never get to 2.1bbs unless you were lost a big pot last hand. But since you are that low, cards are irrelevant. You're on the button, it's folded to you...shove. You can't profit in 180s by trying to squeek into a mincash. Play for top 3 or don't play at all.

[bisio]

I believe there's no absolute right or wrong here. While I understand and accept the logic of monkey and rook, I think an argument can be made for folding as well, if you are determined to cash. You JUST went through the blinds, which gives you another round of opportunity. There's already 11k in the pot, 5k of which was invested by the bb. He only had to call 6k more to win 28k and he was not overflowing with chips, so he was very likely to call with any two but most definitely with any A. The question is do you want a call in that spot? Because you are very likely getting one. Yes, K10 is better than two random cards (personally i think K10 RULES!!!) but if the aim is to cash I would have folded there and hoped a better spot came through the next round. Then again I'm OBVIOUSLY no expert.

[CaliNaughti]

I am reposting my response here as I am not sure the originol post is getting read. so here was my response:

What are you going to do? You had to play it. You hit the straight on the river. Its just one of those things. Im giving you a back rub. I think you played it right. Anytime your going to go all in in this situation you are going to get called by the big blind, he would be a fool not call you with anything in his hand..your just hoping to hit which you did, but he did too.

Poker Stars treatment at its best! Usually though, PS will LET YOU flop the straight (getting you all jacked up) and YOUR OPPONENT will river the full house.

Sorry you bubbled. What did Bobby say about bubble play though?

[Kat]

Depends on the stacks on the other tables

[Kat]

Agreed with Monkey. Easiest shove on the planet. Regardless of cards. It's a bonus that you got KT here, but you should be shoving any 2 in this spot all day. It's folded to you on the button with 2.1bbs. First of all you should never get to 2.1bbs unless you were lost a big pot last hand. But since you are that low, cards are irrelevant. You're on the button, it's folded to you...shove. You can't profit in 180s by trying to squeek into a mincash. Play for top 3 or don't play at all.

Agreed, but having found yourself in a situation where you're ultrashort directly on the bubble the question reduces to an equity calculation. For example, if the BB on one of the other tables is AI this is surely a fold? I don't actually know since I haven't run the numbers. It's possible the pay-out distribution is long-tailed enough you have to shove ATC, but I don't think it's obvious without running an ICM.

[Luckymonkey]

For example, if the BB on one of the other tables is AI this is surely a fold?

Here I think you use your time bank to see what happens on the all-in hand, and make your decision after that?

[Kat]

I've just been messing around with the math and as rookiepsu and monkey say these pay-out structures are so top heavy that with that amount of dead money in the pot it looks like a shove unless the stack distribution at the other tables is strange. Main point to recognize here I think is that these situations have very little to do with poker.

[StokerAces]

sigh....back to Machiavellian top heavy prospects? :cali:

[Kat]

sigh....back to Machiavellian top heavy prospects? :cali:

Shoog!!!

I haz a reformed, honest.

[StokerAces]

Shoog!!!

I haz a reformed, honest.
rite...and pigs now fly?
caution w/reforms....never capitulate the "magical"

[BufFather]

well if we just look at the Charts then this is what we get:

this is 100% push with an M of around 2 in the UTG+2 spot

Optimal push charts with your stack and position shows:
22+ A2s+ A4o+ K8s+ KTo+ Q9s+ QJo J9s+ T8s+ 98s

His call was also the correct play, Call charts show that in the BB you can call a pusher in the UTG+2 that has an M of 2 with this range:
22+ Ax+ K3s+ K8o+ Q8s+ QTo+ J9s+ JTo T8s+ 98s


as for the micro cash consideration, in most big MTT's, 100 min cashes are still less than 1st place cash. Go for the Gold or die trying.

[Jedi333]

Sure, I'm late to the party, but it's a clear push in this situation and it's not even close.